For more than 50 of his 71 years, Tony Campolo has focused on youth and youth ministry. And as a card-carrying sociologist, he has kept his eyes and ears open for important cultural trends. It’s when you get Tony talking about the intersections of his passion for youth ministry and his unique perspective on the contemporary cultural scene that some of his more thought-provoking insights emerge. We caught up with Tony during a relatively quiet week. (His speaking schedule was “only” taking him to Florida, North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Tennessee!) He was also working on a number of book projects, including Letters to a Young Evangelical,which is scheduled to be published by Basic Books later this year. And back at his office, The Campolo School of Social Change at Eastern University, assistants were helping him keep in touch with friends such as Bill Clinton and Bono and coordinating his continuing work with groups such as The Evangelical Association for the Promotion of Education, Compassion International, and Mission Year (www.tonycampolo.org). Asked about where he sees himself at this stage in his life, Tony said, “I am a senior citizen reflecting upon what
is happening to young people in the world today.”

YWJ: How long have you been involved in helping youth workers?

Campolo:  I started as a youth pastor in a Presbyterian church in 1955 and have been trying to relate the gospel message to young people ever since.

YWJ: Why does youth ministry matter to you?

Campolo: One reason is because every major decision that molds people for the rest of their lives is typically made between the ages of 15 and 23. Decisions about who to marry, what education to seek, how seriously to take Christ, what kind of commitment you want to have with the church — all of these are basically fixed during this time. It is not that people can’t change after their mid-20s; but after that, changes are generally made due to a crisis.

YWJ: Where would you say youth ministry is today?

Campolo:  I think youth ministry is understood as a distinct and special vocation. So it is not something you do until you grow up and get a “real job,” but it is a specialized field and calling.

At the same time, I am frightened by the way the field is being understood these days. I find there is a kind of dumbing down of intellectual content and an expansion of a kind of  “rah-rah” emotional enthusiasm. Not that there is anything wrong with the latter; but if it is an uninformed enthusiasm, it can lead to superficiality.

YWJ: What kinds of cultural forces do you see shaping young people and youth culture today?

Campolo:  Two cultural forces have immense impact. One is music, and I don’t know if we pay enough attention to music and the messages of the people who write it.

When a song like Three 6 Mafia’s “It’s Hard Out Here for a Pimp” is a hit and wins an Academy Award, I am scared. But at the same time, Bono turns out music that really lifts the values and morals of young people. So it’s a mixed bag. Music has great potential for good and for destruction. But music is clearly a dominant force for molding youth.

A second force is the motion picture industry. Young people are incredibly impacted by cinema, and fortunately the movies are sending out a lot of good messages right now. With films like Oscarwinner Crash, the Harry Potter movies, and even the Star Wars movies, with their struggle between good and evil, it seems the good outweighs the bad right now.

YWJ: What new books have you been reading lately?

Campolo: I think the books that really impress me are old books. Right now I am reading Nietzsche’s Beyond Good and Evil because I really feel the enemies of Christianity often see our flaws more clearly than we see them. Nietzsche condemns Christians for all the right reasons and has a lot to say that helps shed a perspective on the way some Christians embrace power. His observations are important because so many evangelicals have given up on servanthood and are hungry to embrace power.

YWJ: What are some recent trends and developments in youth ministry that give you hope or cause you concern?

Campolo:  The thing that gives me hope is that I see a group of young people who offer an alternative to cultural Christianity with biblical Christianity. This is an alternative that
challenges some of our assumptions and practices. For example, Shane Claiborne, who was on the cover of Christianity Today, is an “urban monk” in Philadelphia who is daring to present a radical Christian lifestyle without being judgmental toward people who don’t buy into his beliefs. His first book, The Irresistible Revolution, was about the radical character and economics of Jesus. (See review in “TOOLS” section.) His next book, How Jesus Wrecked My Life, talks about how Shane was a prom king, etc. and then Jesus called him and destroyed his version of the American dream.

One thing that scares me is the way young women dress. I was on a panel with Dr. Ruth [Westheimer], and we were asked about our greatest concerns regarding youth. Dr. Ruth said she is concerned about how young women are dressing. I was stunned, but she pointed out that in her estimation teenage girls have no idea about how their dress affects young males and creates a whole mindset that could bring about all kinds of fearful consequences.

YWJ: What kinds of criteria can youth workers use to assess whether or not they are being “successful” in their ministry and having an impact on the young people they serve?

Campolo:  One measure is whether or not the people in the church are a little bit upset with what is happening with the young people. We should ask if all the youth worker is doing is trying to integrate youth into the accepted values of the dominant society’s culture. I feel better when youth workers are trying to develop Christlike non-conformists who stand over and against the dominant values that pervade our culture and, often, the church. So if a youth worker is successful at creating Christian non-conformists, he or she will upset some of the adults in church.

YWJ: So youth workers ought to have their résumés updated at all times, right?

Campolo:  The day you take a job as a youth worker, you need to write out your resignation, hand it to the senior pastor, and tell him to use it any time he wants to let you go. I did that, and I was there for a long time because I had a pretty radical guy who was the senior pastor. If all we’re doing is trying to protect our position and our careers, not much will happen.

YWJ: For a long time you have been very involved in social and political issues. And when you appeared on Comedy Central’s “The Colbert Report” in March, host Stephen Colbert called you a “living oxymoron” for your work pursuing a progressive social agenda as an evangelical. What are some things a youth worker can do to help young people transcend partisan divisions between conservative and liberal, or Republican and Democrat, in order to develop a Christ-centered, biblically based approach to social and moral issues?

Campolo:  I would suggest that youth groups do a verse-by-verse study of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount and ask what it says about the pressing issues of our times.

YWJ: What are some of the things you have learned from your son Bart over the years that have helped you develop a different perspective on youth, youth culture, or youth ministry?

Campolo:  One thing is that Bart is a lot more daring than I am. He is more willing to think outside the box. He is bold; and he is not afraid to say things that might be wrong and later say, “Maybe I need to rethink that.” I was a lot more cautious when I was his age.

YWJ: We’re talking in this issue of YouthWorker Journal about reimagining thoughts on that topic? What would you like to see youth workers focus on?

Campolo:  One thing I want to ask youth workers is: “How much Bible do your young people know as they come of age?” Of all the things you can do, helping them to be biblically literate is the most important. Young people are dumbing out on many things, and many kids who have been through youth programs don’t have the kind of bedrock knowledge of Scripture that is critical to maturity. So I would really work hard on making people biblical scholars.

I would also work hard on spiritual formation. Youth need to learn how to pray. They know how to make lists of requests to God. But what they need to do is learn about centering prayer and contemplative prayer and the other spiritual disciplines, such as The Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola and some of the other things that our Catholic brothers and sisters have known about for centuries.

I would love to see people connect with what Mark Yaconelli is discovering about spirituality among young people and about the hunger of young people for spiritual depth. Young people are hungry to experience spiritual depth. We need to help them do that.