For more than 20 years, Max Lucado has helped Christians understand the biblical color of the white space between Bible verses. As an author and pastor, his reassuring tone and conversational communication style have mentored a generation looking for intimate dialogue beyond propositional theology. In a postmodern era when the pendulum now swings more naturally his way, we jumped at the chance to hear his spin on what is happening in Christendom.

YWJ: We want kids to follow Jesus and develop a biblical worldview, but it’s not always easy. Teenagers seem to form their convictions emotionally instead of propositionally—through how they feel while watching storylines on TV, for example, instead of actual spiritual research. Do you think there is any validity to youth workers using videos and stories as a sort of emotional ministry, or are we sacrificing theological content to do so?

Max: I do think there is a place for emotional ministry. The work of the Holy Spirit stirs intellect and emotion, and that creates what we know and what we feel. Keeping the balance on those is the challenge, but I’m not afraid to help stir emotions in people’s hearts if we trust and work with the Holy Spirit to counterbalance.

None of us know the perfect spiritual diet we need to give others—all of us operate on what worked with us and what worked with others. The Holy Spirit is behind us and before us, and I believe He’s going to supplement.

YWJ: In contrast, we also live in a time when many people inside the church are questioning if we can know true theology. There’s been a lot of reimagining of traditional doctrines, and many claim they’re using a more accurate historical context or clarity of stories told during the biblical era to make their points. Do you think this is helpful or hurtful to living simply in the story of God?

Max: Any type of honest dialogue about faith is helpful. If we’re in an era when faith isn’t taken for granted, it’s going to create a helpful place for us to grow while forcing us to anchor deep. I really welcome the dialogue. I think people such as you and others who are moving into leadership roles around the country are in a far better place of faith and knowledge than I was 20 years ago. I’m really impressed with the dialogue you’re helping to happen and am optimistic about the church. I don’t think there’s anything to be anxious about if it helps us focus on the essentials.

YWJ: In your book, you wrote, “Everything changes when you know the rest of the story.” Can you give me an example of something out of your control that you feel caught up in these days and how knowing God’s story is helping you through it?

Max: I’m 57, and one thing that’s struck me is a diminished energy for ministry; and that concerns me. When I was in my mid-30s, I was really ready to change the world and confident I could. By my mid-50s, the energy needed for church leadership and creative communication seemed to be more than what I naturally have. I don’t want to quit, and I’m not depressed; but I don’t have the raw passion to gut through it. I’ve been trying to sort it out, and recently as I was reading through the Book of Proverbs I came upon a verse that says God tests the heart. Maybe He’s doing that for me right now to help me check my motives.

YWJ: I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to hear that kind of honesty. It’s a real gift that you would share that perspective, because a lot of ministry seems to run on adrenaline—especially youth ministry. A lot of youth workers start young, perhaps fresh out of college or someone who grew up in church and started serving. What do you sense might be some of their greatest needs theologically?

Max: The biggest thing is a sense of knowing and being able to articulate very clearly who Jesus is and why He matters. If we can’t do that or get caught up in sideline discussions, then we’ve really lost our bearings. So I really take seriously the statement in Scripture that we preach Jesus Christ crucified. I think the apostle Paul did that in every church community he went to and always looked for a new way to talk about Jesus. Our task is the same, and we need to be able to do it—it’s Jesus Christ.

YWJ: I’d imagine you spend a lot of time in conversations with parents of teenagers. What kind of theology do you sense they’re handing down to their kids consciously or unconsciously?

Max: The concern I have is that parents in our culture are so busy. There are so many homes in which mom and dad both work, and then they become busy with activities to engage their children in every possible sport or musical. There really is very little downtime, and families don’t create any just to be with each other.
It’s the same thing in the church, too. When I talk to parents about the faith of their children, they don’t seem to have a strategy other than, “We’ll just bring them to a church camp or youth group.” As far as them knowing they’re the primary faith tools in the life of their child, I don’t feel good about where parents are at on that.

YWJ: On the other side of that, what message do you believe a youth group should be sending kids?

Max: There is a bigger story than the demands of school and the opportunity for romance. We’re a bigger part of God’s story than we realize are—it’s an adventure. When you start sniffing it out, it lifts you up out of a Munchkin mentality, and then all of life explodes through the wardrobe and into Narnia. Anything we can do better to whet their appetite for God is our role in that partnership with families.

YWJ: A lot of youth workers seem to figure out their theology for ministry in the trenches. Can you describe a point in your life when you felt very vulnerable theologically and what lessons you learned from that moment that others can apply to their lives?

Max: How much time do you have? (laughs) I easily can take you to the turning point. I was 29 and a missionary in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, trying to start a church with several missionary families. We rented a storefront and held services, but couldn’t understand why no one was coming. There wasn’t a lot of progress, and it forced us to realize we really didn’t understand the gospel—who Jesus is and why He matters.

So we started setting up times to pray and study ourselves. We became personally familiar with the resurrection of Jesus and then decided to preach the forgiveness of sins and our opportunity to be resurrected from the death of sin. That’s when the church began to grow—when we realized what people want to know is: Can I know God, and will He forgive me from my sins? That was the real turning point.

YWJ: I’m guessing that fueled what you wrote about how Satan “loves to turn church assemblies into Las Vegas presentations where people show off their abilities rather than boast in God’s.” That’s a great deconstruction of what church can become. Can you reconstruct it; what do you imagine God wants church to be?

Max: The one word that comes to mind is encounter. Church is a place where people encounter God through community, worship and the teaching. Unfortunately, it often becomes a place where they encounter other things besides God. It’s why we don’t have an American flag in our church auditorium except during the Fourth of July weekend and on Memorial Day to honor the sacrifice of others. I’ll get emails about it, but ultimately I don’t want people to have an encounter with the United States every week instead of God. It’s one thing to say we all want to help that happen, but you have to ask how you intentionally should facilitate that.

YWJ: A lot of us struggle with that kind of stuff, whether we’re a part of a denomination and need to honor its slant or feel a desire to branch outside of our traditions. Some time ago, you officially took the Church of Christ tag off your church’s sign and out of its name. What difference do you sense that has made, if any, since it was done?

Max: I navigated through that very slowly. I’ve been here since1988, and I first proposed to our elders that we make the name change in 1993. They said they agreed with the idea but felt the timing wasn’t right. So I didn’t raise the idea again until 2001 or so, and at that point everyone felt the timing was right.

Ultimately we had a two-fold purpose for proceeding. We had such a small percentage of our congregation that actually came out the Church of Christ background—maybe 20 percent or so, while 80 percent was either non-churched or had a traditional Catholic/Lutheran upbringing. It wasn’t really honest to say we were a denominational church from that perspective. Then there was a certain stigma to the name that kept some people from taking part; so we felt a real freedom to move forward, and it became useful to God.

You have to be real patient on something such as that, and it has to feel natural. If it’s forced, it will be divisive. If it’s from the Lord, it eventually will be united. You always have a handful of families that will leave, and a few of ours did peacefully. The church grew significantly, though, because I think we did our job as a church to remove non-essential barricades while still preaching the message of Christ.

YWJ: If you could sum up all your theological thoughts into one Twitter-sized statement, question or phrase, what would that be? Don’t worry, we won’t hold you to 140 characters.

Max: I think I would sum it up by saying you are accepted, adopted and acquitted by God; and He will equip you to take part in the next life…His coming kingdom. Each one of those words you can burrow down on: We’re hungry for acceptance; adoption means we have rights as children through prayer and promises; acquitted means we’ve been put into a place of grace and forgiveness; and we’re being equipped so every struggle in our lives or others’ can be used to prepare us for what’s ahead. That’s what I think matters most.